Shadowrun attitude pdf download

It looks like they have corrected the Armour table to include the Hostile Environment Suit and Battle Dress now on an update on the Mongoose site at least. Should have been updated here also. Good work for spotting it! How 'bout an upgrade path for folks who bought the version less than a week before you released the version? That is an insult to Mongoose's customers, actual or potential. Better to go with Cepheus Engine than allow one's self to be over-charged like this.

Cepheus Engine barely has any art and has no licensing overheads because it is a retro-clone based on an old OGL. Lack of art doesn't make the game bad. I think it's perfectly valid to discuss similar RPGs in the comments thread of a particular product, especially when said product seems like a cheap cash-grab. Mongoose don't need you to defend them, they're a big company, they can handle a little criticism and competition. Mongoose are not a big company.

They are a relatively small company with big overheads that come from paying for an IP license, and having creative staff that get paid a proper wage. Mongoose is a "Big Company" in the same sense that they are "a big boy" and don't need you to defend them from perfectly valid criticisms of their product. If you want to judge standards then Mongoose is an old player in the game, and should be able to do better than a layout 'update' that looks like it's fresh from , especially when charging existing customers full price for this dubious improvement.

By comparison Cepheus Engine is free, mostly lacks art, and suffers from a slightly less readable layout than this modern 'masterpiece'. The fact that it's based on an 'old' open gaming license means practically nothing, considering most modern OSR games are based on an even older OGL and are some of the most innovative games coming out today.

That's not to mention the fact that Mongoose Traveller 2nd edition is based on the very same ruleset Cepheus is. No one is saying Cepheus is better laid out, but it's certainly more worth the price they are charging See more for it.

B Cepheus Engine is cheap by comparison and that is all. The Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition is an evolution from that, based on trying to improve the game based on customer feedback. A lot of customer feedback from 1st edition was about improving layout and presentation - and that is what they did.

If people were truly happy with Cepheus Engine products, then why hang around Discussion threads for Mongoose Traveller products bemoaning their costs?

A My criticism is valid. If you'd care to indicate exactly which comments are not valid, we can continue from there. Historically, Mongoose publications have been rife with textual errors.

I won't harp on that because the entire RPG publishing industry seems to be incapable of publishing error-free books. Cepheus also provides some great roleplaying experiences. B Rather than "cheap", I'd write "inexpensive" by comparison. THAT is the point of my comment. While Mongoose's products are more shiny and pretty, those qualities do not necessarily make for a better gaming experience, unless one's gaming experience depends upon art and flashy layout.

C Cepheus provides for far more than "a stick for some critics It provides for high quality gaming experiences for those with imagination See more and a lack of dependence upon slick layout and fancy graphics. I do not hang out in product descriptions. I received an announcement that an updated pdf was available for a product and took advantage of that invitation to check it out.

My return to this thread is based upon notices that you replied to my comment. That is NOT "hanging out". I hope that you enjoy many years of gaming while using Mongoose's publications, Rory. There is no insult when customers have the choice to pay for it or not. It is a luxury item, and it does not invalidate previous purchases of the core book.

Even the biggest companies, like Wizards of the Coast publish errata after new book releases - it is not anything exclusive to Mongoose. When you complain to Mongoose, they have a track record of being responsive and correcting them accordingly - as they have done already with this product B Cepheus is cheap by design. Their entire existence is as a retro clone based on an old OGL. Another invalid criticism. C You are proving the point of Cepheus merely being used as a stick to beat Mongoose Traveller products with - by your very comments here, on a Traveller discussion thread.

I agree. No printing, shipping, or warehousing costs. It is the cost of paying staff a working wage to make this stuff that makes up most of the price. Mongoose are one of the few RPG businesses that do this. You are doing a pretty good job of selling Cepheus to me! Again, all you are doing here it trying to engage in antagonism on this thread. You have no other purpose here. This should be included or discounted for current buyers. Total slap in the face. It has a new graphical layout, designed afresh from a team of professional designers.

In the same sense that Call of Cthulhu has just produced an 40th Anniversary edition, or Pendragon produced multiple versions of their 5th edition with different designs, or the Doctor Who RPG has produced new versions of their game without major rules changes, this is the same sort of thing.

It is explicitly not a new edition of the game. Rory, it is not about feeling "entitled" or wanting something for free. Mongoose should be able to make money off of their work.

If you want to foolishly pay too much for digital content, knock yourself out. I disagree. This is a complete rulebook, with a new layout and art. New layout designers and artists need to get paid. For me, I am looking forward to a leatherette cover special edition of this book, and I am thankful to be able to buy such a product. If you want to pay for that, knock yourself out. I hope they didn't pay a lot of money for that layout because it doesn't look professional at all. It looks like something you would see in mid to late 90s design.

If you were to compare it to some of the other designs done by other major table top RPG companies it would not hold well. It is missing a lot of the advanced design elements.

Don't get me wrong. If this layout were applied to any of the amateur products that are on here it would be pretty good. Regrading your comment on entitlement.

You can bet your sweet xxx. If I am paying for a product I definitely entitled to my opinion on it and what I want in the product. If they are bad comments roll with it and find the positive in the comment.

If the comment is good enjoy it for a bit and then analysis it to see how you can improve. Is anybody here, who are criticizing, actually paying for anything? Or are they just complaining that they refuse to pay for it?

I disagree with your analysis of the layout and art. Certainly, if you are comparing Traveller products from the mid-late 90s, they were generally all black and white with a few inserted colour plates, and little layout work beyond text in columns.

Go and have a look at T4 products of the time to make a comparison if you want. I find it entirely on a par with professional products I own from other companies. I know this isn't your intention, but you are coming off as extremely defensive of this product and dismissive of the concerns of others. Someone can disagree with you and feel like this is overpriced without being "entitled".

It's a simple act of comparison to other projects and a value judgment. Other games with similar pricing also receive similar complaints. It is also perfectly valid to look at a charge like this for an update that is not a full revision and feel it is unfriendly to consumers. Mongoose has a history that provides context for these opinions, and not all of it is positive.

I have a lot of Mongoose and older traveller on my shelves and I don't regret purchasing any of them, but I am aware of many errata issues. Put it this way, if people feel free to discuss negatively on a product in the associated thread, then why should they feel hostile when somebody disagrees with them in turn?

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